The logical result of 50 years of secularism

by Datechguy | December 18th, 2011

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The logical result of 50 years of secularism

On a non-​religious level it seems to me you can not ratio­nally say that gay mar­riage is ok and should be legal with­out also allow­ing either polygamy and incest between con­sent­ing adults. Both have a longer and more accepted cul­tural his­tory worldwide.

And PLEASE don’t give me the “ick” fac­tor argu­ment about these other things being accepted. Ick is just an argu­ment about cul­ture. It is the same argu­ment that one would have heard con­cern­ing gay mar­riage less that 20 years ago.

DaT­e­chGuy: Dec 23rd 2008 Richard Cohen, Nar­cis­sist or Bigot

That was another lit­tle goof of mine, shame. I don’t know why I thought we needed shame

George Burns as God. Oh God 1977

With­out God every­thing is permitted

Fyo­dor Dostoevsky

On Fri­day the Star Tri­bune pub­lished a story con­cern­ing a prank at a high school rally that was …“inter­est­ing”:

A prank on some blind­folded Rose­mount High School ath­letes — they were unknow­ingly and at times amorously kissed by their par­ents dur­ing a recent pep fest — is col­lect­ing YouTube views by the tens of thou­sands and has the prin­ci­pal apol­o­giz­ing for what happened.

Here’s how the prac­ti­cal joke, orig­i­nated by school staff mem­bers, played out dur­ing the assem­bly on Dec. 8:

The cap­tains of the school’s win­ter sports teams — boys and girls — were lined up and blind­folded. They were told they would be kissed and then asked to guess who was on the other side of their lips.

Some of the par­ents dur­ing the 59-​second YouTube video are seen hold­ing the kisses for sev­eral sec­onds, cup­ping their child’s faces or embrac­ing and swaying.

Dea­con Greg is nau­se­ated, The Anchoress is shocked.

I’d like to say I’m sur­prised but I’m not. I’ve been pay­ing atten­tion. It’s been just one year since the Swiss started talk­ing the repeal of incest laws. It is only four months since psy­chol­o­gists met in DC to dis­cuss “nor­mal­iz­ing” pedophilia as a men­tal illness.

I think they both missed the most impor­tant line of the piece (all empha­sis mine):

There is no ques­tion that peo­ple were offended,” Woller­sheim told the Star Tri­bune. “I apol­o­gize to those who were offended, and we won’t do it again.

Any­thing that hap­pens at this school is the principal’s respon­si­bil­ity. I take full respon­si­bil­ity. … There shouldn’t be an event in a school that we offend peo­ple with.

Note what is said. He is sorry that peo­ple were offended. Not that it was wrong, not that it was creepy, but that peo­ple were offended.

The impli­ca­tion that if peo­ple were NOT offended it would have been OK.

That more than any­thing else is the take away here, if it wasn’t for those puri­tan­i­cal prudes who were offended this would be no big deal and we could all have our fun.

The above can stand on it’s own but I’m about to make a VERY uncom­fort­able point, if you don’t want to see it then don’t click the con­tinue button

Update: Wouldn’t you know that just as I fin­ish this post I’ve worked hours on to sched­ule for tonight Dar­leen Click uses the Ick Fac­tor line in a great post at Pro­tein Wis­dom!

Update 2: That’s Click not Glick, my bad, thanks Joy.

Update 3: Stacy at Accept­ing Abun­dance links quot­ing applic­a­ble law.
:

I’d like to illus­trate how chang­ing the ICK fac­tor works. The fol­low­ing two screen shots are from a x rated web site:

This is one line of the search results for “mother daughter”

This is from a search for “mother son” from the same site.

Note the num­ber of views on each of these results and con­sider the fol­low­ing: There were over 1000 dif­fer­ent results for both of these searches on this sin­gle web site. I included other “cre­ative” searches I sus­pect that num­bers would have been similar.

Let’s stip­u­late that all of these peo­ple are, no mat­ter what the labels say, in fact paid actors and the rela­tion­ships between the actors are not actu­ally what the labels claim to be. That being the case noth­ing done here is ille­gal. Yet this site, (which is only one of thou­sands) are but a click away if you have any kind of per­sonal inter­net connection.

For­get the pseudo incest men­tioned above, two gen­er­a­tions ago what would be called “nor­mal” porn, had a social oppro­brium, an ICK fac­tor if you will. (At 13 I remem­ber with a pal hav­ing a garbage bag hid­den in the woods with a stash of what was called at the time “dirty” magazines).

Over the last gen­er­a­tion how­ever, porn ha,s to a large degree been main­streamed. It’s reached the point where when two weeks ago on 96.9 FM host Mel Rob­bins was out­raged overFox report reveal­ing the Gay Porn past of an area teacher stress­ing that what he did wasn’t illegal.

I found the dis­cus­sion fas­ci­nat­ing. There were no short­age of callers dis­agree­ing with her on this sub­ject but nobody really seemed will­ing to say some­thing was actu­ally wrong.

I sub­mit that this is because the ICK fac­tor has shifted. To the elites and their allies in the media the nor­mal­iza­tion of porn (straight or gay) to high school stu­dents doesn’t cross the ICK fac­tor but to sug­gest let along state such nor­mal­iza­tion of Porn (Gay or Straight) to high school stu­dents is unde­sir­able, that’s beyond the pale.

It’s the same sit­u­a­tion as the rally. Noth­ing that was done at that Pep rally in Min­nesota was ille­gal either, but since it’s still beyond the cur­rent ICK. We need to use the veneer of “offense” to stop it just as if it was a Christ­mas Tree on a town com­mon. No moral judg­ment is allowed.

It’s yet another man­i­fes­ta­tion of what John Nolte has said:

And this is how cin­e­matic pro­pa­ganda works. Whether the filmmaker’s moti­va­tions are good or evil, the idea is to get decent and thought­ful peo­ple to start sec­ond guess­ing them­selves as they’re enveloped in the dark and held cap­tive by the pow­er­ful sound and fury of the mov­ing pic­ture. First we’re led to iden­tify and sym­pa­thize with a par­tic­u­lar char­ac­ter, then that char­ac­ter does some­thing designed to chal­lenge our belief structure.

Such propaganda’s tar­get is not so much sec­u­lar­ists who con­sider these things a mat­ter of taste rather than belief struc­ture. The tar­get is a per­son like me. Porn has always been the sin I’ve strug­gled with and the inter­net age hasn’t made it any eas­ier. If such pro­pa­ganda can’t per­suade me to aban­don my knowl­edge of what is sin and what is not, those push­ing such pro­pa­ganda will be more than happy to cause me to sim­ply shut up for fear of a charge of hypocrisy. Ain’t gonna hap­pen.

This is sim­ply another step in the attempt to change the ICK fac­tor by peo­ple who want to change social norms to jus­tify them­selves. Just nar­cis­sism. What hap­pened in Min­nesota is not part of the fight, it’s sim­ply its log­i­cal result.

I sub­mit that in a gen­er­a­tion, when both all the par­ents and the chil­dren and the teach­ers have had access to the web links I’ve shown above the ICK fac­tor will have shifted and you will have not a prin­ci­pal apol­o­giz­ing for an inces­tual pep rally we will instead have radio hosts exco­ri­at­ing the Star Tri­bune for report­ing on it and call­ing those who object puri­tan­i­cal and intolerant.

That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

On a non-religious level it seems to me you can not rationally say that gay marriage is ok and should be legal without also allowing either polygamy and incest between consenting adults. Both have a longer and more accepted cultural history worldwide.

And PLEASE don’t give me the “ick” factor argument about these other things being accepted. Ick is just an argument about culture. It is the same argument that one would have heard concerning gay marriage less that 20 years ago.

  DaTechGuy: Dec 23rd 2008 Richard Cohen, Narcissist or Bigot

That was another little goof of mine, shame. I don’t know why I thought we needed shame

George Burns as God.  Oh God 1977

Without God everything is  permitted

Fyodor Dostoevsky

On Friday the Star Tribune published a story concerning a prank at a high school rally that was …”interesting”:

A prank on some blindfolded Rosemount High School athletes — they were unknowingly and at times amorously kissed by their parents during a recent pep fest — is collecting YouTube views by the tens of thousands and has the principal apologizing for what happened.

Here’s how the practical joke, originated by school staff members, played out during the assembly on Dec. 8:

The captains of the school’s winter sports teams — boys and girls — were lined up and blindfolded. They were told they would be kissed and then asked to guess who was on the other side of their lips.

Some of the parents during the 59-second YouTube video are seen holding the kisses for several seconds, cupping their child’s faces or embracing and swaying.

Deacon Greg is nauseated, The Anchoress is shocked.

I’d like to say I’m surprised but I’m not. I’ve been paying attention. It’s been just one year since the Swiss started talking the repeal of incest laws. It is only four months since psychologists met in DC to discuss “normalizing” pedophilia as a mental illness.

I think they both missed the most important line of the piece (all emphasis mine):

“There is no question that people were offended,” Wollersheim told the Star Tribune. “I apologize to those who were offended, and we won’t do it again.

“Anything that happens at this school is the principal’s responsibility. I take full responsibility. … There shouldn’t be an event in a school that we offend people with.

Note what is said. He is sorry that people were offended. Not that it was wrong, not that it was creepy, but that people were offended.

The implication that if people were NOT offended it would have been OK.

That more than anything else is the take away here, if it wasn’t for those puritanical prudes who were offended this would be no big deal and we could all have our fun.

The above can stand on it’s own but I’m about to make a VERY uncomfortable point, if you don’t want to see it then don’t click the continue button

Update: Wouldn’t you know that just as I finish this post I’ve worked hours on to schedule for tonight Darleen Click uses the Ick Factor line in a great post at Protein Wisdom!

Update 2: That’s Click not Glick, my bad, thanks Joy.

Update 3: Stacy at Accepting Abundance links quoting applicable law.
:

I’d like to illustrate how changing the ICK factor works. The following two screen shots are from a x rated web site:

This is one line of the search results for “mother daughter”

This is from a search for “mother son” from the same site.

Note the number of views on each of these results and consider the following: There were over 1000 different results for both of these searches on this single web site. I included other “creative” searches I suspect that numbers would have been similar.

Let’s stipulate that all of these people are, no matter what the labels say, in fact paid actors and the relationships between the actors are not actually what the labels claim to be. That being the case nothing done here is illegal. Yet this site, (which is only one of thousands) are but a click away if you have any kind of personal internet connection.

Forget the pseudo incest mentioned above, two generations ago what would be called “normal” porn, had a social opprobrium, an ICK factor if you will. (At 13 I remember with a pal having a garbage bag hidden in the woods with a stash of what was called at the time “dirty” magazines).

Over the last generation however, porn ha,s to a large degree been mainstreamed. It’s reached the point where when two weeks ago on 96.9 FM host Mel Robbins was outraged over a Fox report revealing the Gay Porn past of an area teacher stressing that what he did wasn’t illegal.

I found the discussion fascinating. There were no shortage of callers disagreeing with her on this subject but nobody really seemed willing to say something was actually wrong.

I submit that this is because the ICK factor has shifted. To the elites and their allies in the media the normalization of porn (straight or gay) to high school students doesn’t cross the ICK factor but to suggest let along state such normalization of Porn (Gay or Straight) to high school students is undesirable, that’s beyond the pale.

It’s the same situation as the rally. Nothing that was done at that Pep rally in Minnesota was illegal either, but since it’s still beyond the current ICK. We need to use the veneer of “offense” to stop it just as if it was a Christmas Tree on a town common. No moral judgment is allowed.

It’s yet another manifestation of what John Nolte has said:

And this is how cinematic propaganda works. Whether the filmmaker’s motivations are good or evil, the idea is to get decent and thoughtful people to start second guessing themselves as they’re enveloped in the dark and held captive by the powerful sound and fury of the moving picture. First we’re led to identify and sympathize with a particular character, then that character does something designed to challenge our belief structure.

Such propaganda’s target is not so much secularists who consider these things a matter of taste rather than belief structure. The target is a person like me. Porn has always been the sin I’ve struggled with and the internet age hasn’t made it any easier. If such propaganda can’t persuade me to abandon my knowledge of what is sin and what is not, those pushing such propaganda will be more than happy to cause me to simply shut up for fear of a charge of hypocrisy. Ain’t gonna happen.

This is simply another step in the attempt to change the ICK factor by people who want to change social norms to justify themselves. Just narcissism. What happened in Minnesota is not part of the fight, it’s simply its logical result.

I submit that in a generation, when both all the parents and the children and the teachers have had access to the web links I’ve shown above the ICK factor will have shifted and you will have not a principal apologizing for an incestual pep rally we will instead have radio hosts excoriating the Star Tribune for reporting on it and calling those who object puritanical and intolerant.

That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

DaTechGuy on DaRadio Saturday Noon EST. WBNW AM 1120 Concord WPLM 1390 Plymouth WESO 970 Southbridge, FTR Radio, the 405 Media

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