The Great Gay Marriage Debate: Brian Brown vs Dan Savage

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The Great Gay Marriage Debate: Brian Brown vs Dan Savage

You might remem­ber the story of Dan Sav­age sav­aging the bible at a High School speech, stu­dents walks out and Sav­age mocked the. Brian Brown at the time issued a chal­lenge:

Let me lay down a pub­lic chal­lenge to Dan Sav­age right here and now: You want to sav­age the Bible? Chris­t­ian moral­ity? Tra­di­tional mar­riage? Pope Bene­dict? I’m here, you name the time and the place and let’s see what a big man you are in a debate with some­one who can talk back. It’s easy to make high-​school girls cry by pick­ing on them. Let’s pick on some­one our own size!

The date was Aug 15th the place was Dan Savage’s house and the time was after din­ner with a NYT reporter (who by his own descrip­tion was con­stantly drink­ing) as mod­er­a­tor. I guess when Brian Brown says any place any time he MEANS it.

How did it go? Well here is what the reporter Mark Oppen­heimer, got from the two sides:

Sev­eral days later, I asked Mr. Sav­age, Mr. Miller and Mr. Brown how they thought the debate had gone. (DJ, Mr. Sav­age and Mr. Miller’s 14-​year-​old son, ate with us but left before the debate, so I didn’t bother him with questions.)

Mr. Miller pro­nounced the entire night a waste of time. “Brian’s heart­less read­ings of the Bible, then his turns to ‘nat­ural law’ when the Bible fails, don’t hide his big­otry and cru­elty,” Mr. Miller wrote in an e-​mail. “In the end, that’s what he is. Cruel.”

I spoke with Mr. Brown by phone, and he seemed to agree that the set­ting had made lit­tle dif­fer­ence. “There’s this myth that folks like me, we don’t know any gay peo­ple, and if we just met them, we would change our views,” he said. “But the notion that if you have us into your house, that all that faith and rea­son that we have on our side, we will chuck it out and change our views — that’s not the real world.”

As for Mr. Sav­age, he felt that being on his home turf had actu­ally worked against him. “Play­ing host put me in this posi­tion of treat­ing Brian Brown like a guest,” he said. “It was bet­ter in the­ory than in prac­tice — it put me at a dis­ad­van­tage dur­ing the debate, as the under­tow of play­ing host resulted in my being more solic­i­tous and con­sid­er­ate than I should’ve been. If I had it to do over again, I think I’d go with a hall.”

Mr. Millers answer seems to show an igno­rance of his­tor­i­cal Catholic thought, Con­sid­er­ing Mr. Savage’s choice of loca­tion his com­plaint is a tad empty but I sug­gest you lis­ten to the debate in full and make up your own mind.

I sus­pect it will be quite a rev­e­la­tion to many young peo­ple who are assured by the MSM that there is no pos­si­ble ratio­nal argu­ment against Gay Marriage.

As for me I’d be happy to see these debates on every col­lege cam­pus around the nation. For cen­turies scrip­ture has been attacked and for cen­turies the finest minds in Chris­ten­dom have defended it successfully.

Debate and rea­son are the friends of truth and thus the friends of scrip­ture. Bring it on!

Update: I just watched the debate which after the mod­er­a­tor had a few became 2 on 1. I am shocked that so many on the pro-​gay mar­riage side linked it as Mr. Sav­age was pretty much owned by Brown.

You might remember the story of Dan Savage savaging the bible at a High School speech, students walks out and Savage mocked the. Brian Brown at the time issued a challenge:

Let me lay down a public challenge to Dan Savage right here and now: You want to savage the Bible? Christian morality? Traditional marriage? Pope Benedict? I’m here, you name the time and the place and let’s see what a big man you are in a debate with someone who can talk back. It’s easy to make high-school girls cry by picking on them. Let’s pick on someone our own size!

The date was Aug 15th the place was Dan Savage’s house and the time was after dinner with a NYT reporter (who by his own description was constantly drinking) as moderator. I guess when Brian Brown says any place any time he MEANS it.

How did it go? Well here is what the reporter Mark Oppenheimer, got from the two sides:

Several days later, I asked Mr. Savage, Mr. Miller and Mr. Brown how they thought the debate had gone. (DJ, Mr. Savage and Mr. Miller’s 14-year-old son, ate with us but left before the debate, so I didn’t bother him with questions.)

Mr. Miller pronounced the entire night a waste of time. “Brian’s heartless readings of the Bible, then his turns to ‘natural law’ when the Bible fails, don’t hide his bigotry and cruelty,” Mr. Miller wrote in an e-mail. “In the end, that’s what he is. Cruel.”

I spoke with Mr. Brown by phone, and he seemed to agree that the setting had made little difference. “There’s this myth that folks like me, we don’t know any gay people, and if we just met them, we would change our views,” he said. “But the notion that if you have us into your house, that all that faith and reason that we have on our side, we will chuck it out and change our views — that’s not the real world.”

As for Mr. Savage, he felt that being on his home turf had actually worked against him. “Playing host put me in this position of treating Brian Brown like a guest,” he said. “It was better in theory than in practice — it put me at a disadvantage during the debate, as the undertow of playing host resulted in my being more solicitous and considerate than I should’ve been. If I had it to do over again, I think I’d go with a hall.”

Mr. Millers answer seems to show an ignorance of historical Catholic thought, Considering Mr. Savage’s choice of location his complaint is a tad empty but I suggest you listen to the debate in full and make up your own mind.

I suspect it will be quite a revelation to many young people who are assured by the MSM that there is no possible rational argument against Gay Marriage.

As for me I’d be happy to see these debates on every college campus around the nation. For centuries scripture has been attacked and for centuries the finest minds in Christendom have defended it successfully.

Debate and reason are the friends of truth and thus the friends of scripture. Bring it on!

Update: I just watched the debate which after the moderator had a few became 2 on 1. I am shocked that so many on the pro-gay marriage side linked it as Mr. Savage was pretty much owned by Brown.