Demoralized as Hell, Morning Joe & the Last Gasp Poll before Realville

by Datechguy | October 31st, 2012

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Demoralized as Hell, Morning Joe & the Last Gasp Poll before Realville

I haven’t dived deeply into polls much lately because frankly there has been no point, Mitt Rom­ney has this race and bar­ing the “Live Boy Dead girl” sce­nario it’s not chang­ing. (actu­ally con­sid­er­ing Romany’s rep it wouldn’t take a dead girl, a live girl would shat­ter his clean image completely)

But with one week to go the last gasp effort to rally the MSNBC troops took place today on Morn­ing Joe as they touted the Quinnipiac/CBS?NYT polls Say­ing Obama is up 5 in Ohio with a week to go.

What really got me was their claim that the Quin­nip­iac poll was the “most accu­rate” and again play­ing the “poll denier” card. I’ve per­son­ally found their num­bers the least believ­able and while they were talk­ing about the fights in other states as an alter­na­tive to Ohio for Rom­ney I looked up the inter­nals of this Ohio/​VA/​Florida poll and found this:

After talk­ing about how reli­able Quin­nip­iac is, for 15 min­utes and while I was tweet­ing out the D+8 sam­ples in all of these states D+7 in Florida, they sud­denly piv­oted as Mark Halperin brought up the D+8 sam­ple and peo­ple asked how can this be the case if Mitt is up by huge mar­gins among inde­pen­dents in this poll?

At this time they made the case that the split in the sam­ple defines the elec­torate while I argue that the accu­rate of the poll is based on how the splits match the electorate.

Now Polls have lim­i­ta­tion based on the response rate and the var­i­ous meth­ods of get­ting peo­ple to answer but the actual reg­is­tra­tion and demo­graph­ics of a state are a real­ity, they may change over time but they are what they are no mat­ter what but of a sam­ple is used.

In the 7 AM Hour more of the same and in the 8 AM hour they repeated this non­sense. This isn’t a poll, this is a last gasp before Media Cred­i­bil­ity day arrives and it becomes impos­si­ble to deny what already exists.

That the Morn­ing Joe team is spend­ing a show try­ing to sell the accu­racy of a D+8 poll in Ohio & VA & +7 in Fla to their far left base speaks vol­umes, here is what it says to me:

“Ride right through them, they’re demor­al­ized as hell”!

When you are reduced to Chuck Todd argu­ing body lan­guage in pri­vate con­ver­sa­tions that’s pretty bad, by con­trast you have Rom­ney peo­ple can­vas­ing dur­ing the damn storm.

Folks, there is going to be a turnout effort in Ohio like you’ve never seen. George Cullen has been can­vass­ing door-​to-​door for the past five weeks. He usu­ally hits about 50 doors a day, but only got 25 under the storm con­di­tions yes­ter­day. He’s a West Point grad­u­ate who served six years in the Army, and he says, “The con­ser­v­a­tives are very energized.”

Yeah this is a D+8 state SURE! It will be fun to watch these guys next Wednesday.

Update: Just called Robert Stacy McCain on the ground in Ohio and asked about the “Body Lan­guage” stuff from Chuck Todd: “It’s crazy” He spoke to Kevin Mad­den on Sun­day one of the top guys in the Rom­ney Cam­paign after rally. He seemed calm and laid back. He hasn’t seen any of this scary “Body Lan­guage” from the Rom­ney folks.

They are still work­ing hard, they have not slacked off nor would any­one expect them to but if our friends on the left want to tell them­selves this, as the folks in the south say “Bless their Hearts”.

Update 2: Ed Mor­ris­sey elab­o­rates:

In each of these three states, the CBS/​NYT/​Q-​poll shows Repub­li­cans at a lower per­cent­age level of turnout than in the 2008 elec­tion. If one makes that assump­tion, it’s not too dif­fi­cult to be guess that Obama might be ahead. How­ever, that’s exactly the oppo­site of what all other polls rat­ing enthu­si­asm are telling us what the elec­torate will look like on Tues­day. In fact, it’s not even what this poll shows, with Repub­li­can enthu­si­asm +16 over Democ­rats in Florida, +14 in Ohio, and +7 in Virginia.

I guess that explains why we didn’t see Ed on the show today. I sus­pect that mes­sage wouldn’t have been all that welcome.

Update 3: Insta­lanche and Michael Gra­ham who you might recall was the owner of the site “Any­body But Mitt” says what is coming:

I believe we’re on the verge of a solid Rom­ney win for two rea­sons. One is the objec­tive evi­dence. The other is the ugly des­per­a­tion of the Obama cam­paign in its final days.

and he raises a very impor­tant point I never thought of:

The pres­i­dent, on the other hand, has peaked at 47 per­cent. The Bat­tle­ground Poll model shows Obama los­ing 52 per­cent to 47 per­cent. Ras­mussen daily track­ing has Obama los­ing 49 per­cent to 47 per­cent. Pew has him tied: 47 per­cent to 47 per­cent. But more impor­tant, all the polls show Obama slid­ing or stuck. None show any upward movement.

Obama sup­port­ers are quick to tell you “the only poll that mat­ters is the one on Elec­tion Day.” Two things: a) that’s what can­di­dates who are behind always say; b) this is elec­tion day.

Next Wednes­day is going to be fun.

Update 4: Stacy who I so rudely woke up in the first update asks an obvi­ous ques­tion:

You might think some reporter at the New York Times, which co-​sponsored this poll, would think it worth his while to inter­view the peo­ple at Quin­nip­iac and ask where they’re get­ting these weird over-​samples of Democ­rats. What is caus­ing this? How is it that Repub­li­cans report greater vot­ing enthu­si­asm by such large mar­gins, and yet are under­rep­re­sented in the poll’s sam­ple? It makes no sense.

I’d love to hear the answer.

BTW PPP poll now being touted, Iowa Sam­ple is D+5 Wis­con­sin D+4

I haven’t dived deeply into polls much lately because frankly there has been no point, Mitt Romney has this race and baring the “Live Boy Dead girl” scenario it’s not changing. (actually considering Romany’s rep it wouldn’t take a dead girl, a live girl would shatter his clean image completely)

But with one week to go the last gasp effort to rally the MSNBC troops took place today on Morning Joe as they touted the Quinnipiac/CBS?NYT polls Saying Obama is up 5 in Ohio with a week to go.

What really got me was their claim that the Quinnipiac poll was the “most accurate” and again playing the “poll denier” card. I’ve personally found their numbers the least believable and while they were talking about the fights in other states as an alternative to Ohio for Romney I looked up the internals of this Ohio/VA/Florida poll and found this:

After talking about how reliable Quinnipiac is, for 15 minutes and while I was tweeting out the D+8 samples in all of these states D+7 in Florida, they suddenly pivoted as Mark Halperin brought up the D+8 sample and people asked how can this be the case if Mitt is up by huge margins among independents in this poll?

At this time they made the case that the split in the sample defines the electorate while I argue that the accurate of the poll is based on how the splits match the electorate.

Now Polls have limitation based on the response rate and the various methods of getting people to answer but the actual registration and demographics of a state are a reality, they may change over time but they are what they are no matter what but of a sample is used.

In the 7 AM Hour more of the same and in the 8 AM hour they repeated this nonsense. This isn’t a poll, this is a last gasp before Media Credibility day arrives and it becomes impossible to deny what already exists.

That the Morning Joe team is spending a show trying to sell the accuracy of a D+8 poll in Ohio & VA & +7 in Fla to their far left base speaks volumes, here is what it says to me:

“Ride right through them, they’re demoralized as hell”!

When you are reduced to Chuck Todd arguing body language in private conversations that’s pretty bad, by contrast you have Romney people canvasing during the damn storm.

Folks, there is going to be a turnout effort in Ohio like you’ve never seen. George Cullen has been canvassing door-to-door for the past five weeks. He usually hits about 50 doors a day, but only got 25 under the storm conditions yesterday. He’s a West Point graduate who served six years in the Army, and he says, “The conservatives are very energized.”

Yeah this is a D+8 state SURE! It will be fun to watch these guys next Wednesday.

Update: Just called Robert Stacy McCain on the ground in Ohio and asked about the “Body Language” stuff from Chuck Todd: “It’s crazy” He spoke to Kevin Madden on Sunday one of the top guys in the Romney Campaign after rally. He seemed calm and laid back. He hasn’t seen any of this scary “Body Language” from the Romney folks.

They are still working hard, they have not slacked off nor would anyone expect them to but if our friends on the left want to tell themselves this, as the folks in the south say “Bless their Hearts”.

Update 2: Ed Morrissey elaborates:

In each of these three states, the CBS/NYT/Q-poll shows Republicans at a lower percentage level of turnout than in the 2008 election. If one makes that assumption, it’s not too difficult to be guess that Obama might be ahead. However, that’s exactly the opposite of what all other polls rating enthusiasm are telling us what the electorate will look like on Tuesday. In fact, it’s not even what this poll shows, with Republican enthusiasm +16 over Democrats in Florida, +14 in Ohio, and +7 in Virginia.

I guess that explains why we didn’t see Ed on the show today. I suspect that message wouldn’t have been all that welcome.

Update 3: Instalanche and Michael Graham who you might recall was the owner of the site “Anybody But Mitt” says what is coming:

I believe we’re on the verge of a solid Romney win for two reasons. One is the objective evidence. The other is the ugly desperation of the Obama campaign in its final days.

and he raises a very important point I never thought of:

The president, on the other hand, has peaked at 47 percent. The Battleground Poll model shows Obama losing 52 percent to 47 percent. Rasmussen daily tracking has Obama losing 49 percent to 47 percent. Pew has him tied: 47 percent to 47 percent. But more important, all the polls show Obama sliding or stuck. None show any upward movement.

Obama supporters are quick to tell you “the only poll that matters is the one on Election Day.” Two things: a) that’s what candidates who are behind always say; b) this is election day.

Next Wednesday is going to be fun.

Update 4: Stacy who I so rudely woke up in the first update asks an obvious question:

You might think some reporter at the New York Times, which co-sponsored this poll, would think it worth his while to interview the people at Quinnipiac and ask where they’re getting these weird over-samples of Democrats. What is causing this? How is it that Republicans report greater voting enthusiasm by such large margins, and yet are underrepresented in the poll’s sample? It makes no sense.

I’d love to hear the answer.

BTW PPP poll now being touted, Iowa Sample is D+5 Wisconsin D+4

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