Is Egypt what Germany Could have been if anti-Nazi’s Revolted

C.R. MacNamara:  Just between us, Schlemmer, what did you do during the war?
Schlemmer:  I was in der Untergrund: the underground.
C.R. MacNamara:  Resistance fighter?
Schlemmer:  No, motorman. In the underground, you know, the subway.
C.R. MacNamara:  Of course you were anti-Nazi and you never liked Adolf.
Schlemmer:  Adolf who?

One Two Three 1961

Webster:  Check the back and– Shut up!  I said shut up, you Nazi fuck!

German baker:  Ich-ich bin kein Nazi. Ich bin kein Nazi!

Webster:  Not a Nazi? My mistake, you fat, fucking prick!  How about a human being? Are you one of those?  Or are you gonna tell me that you never smelled the fucking stench?!

Band of Brothers Why We Fight 2001 (HT Yorda)

I really haven’t given much attention to events in Egypt over the last month but as we look at those events in Egypt. The outlawing of the Muslim Brotherhood, the violence & terror etc we wonder what the right solution might be.

I’m reminded of all those Germans who in and after 1945, insisted they were never part of the Nazi party.  Picture, just for a moment that it was true.

Imagine if there were a significant number of Germans who opposed the Nazis, but decided that since they were properly elected they would let it go.  They hesitated over and over expressing limited objection until finally celebrating the peace of Munich.

Then in 1939 Hitler send the troops into Czechoslovakia. Imagine if that group we have speculated about suddenly decide they’ve had enough.  Those Ordinary Germans take to the street in massive protests and despite the exhortations of Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler and Goring the soldiers under Rommel refuse to fire on the citizens. The Military, which never really liked Hitler side with the people and the Nazi leaders are put in jail.

If this happened conflict would be inevitable. After all a large percentage of the population agree with the Nazis and remember the restoration of German pride after the humiliation of World War 1. They take to the streets and protest, being Nazi’s violence takes place particularly targeting their opponents in selected towns, eventually the unrest, egged on by National Socialists in hiding reaches the point where the new provisional German government declares all Nazis Terrorists subject to imprisonment for membership in the party.

Now what would be the reactions be of the press at the time?

Supporters of the Nazi’s party would scream at a democratically elected government, editorials in England would object, Winston Churchill would cheer and be called an oppressor for it. People would opine on both sides across the nation and the world and the Germans being very advanced, insanely clever and ridiculously organized and regimented would likely fight a huge civil war between the anti-Nazi forces and the pro-Nazi ones with the various great powers supporting different sides.

Would the Russians take advantage and hit Poland on their own? Would the Austrians have a civil war of their own? It goes without saying Czechoslovakia would side with the anti-Nazis.

Would Italy openly join the war on Hitler’s side with France joining the other pitting the two most inept military forces in history and the two most powerful but untested Navies in history against each other?

Whatever the result historians would argue over if the action was justified and point to the deaths and the suffering in Germany during that civil war. The Grand Mufti would blame the carnage on the Jews who oddly would likely still be without a state in the Middle East.

Now looking at this from our knowledge of history, we know that no matter how bad such a civil war might have been it would pale in comparison to the horrors of the 2nd world war. Given the choice between one or the other there is no question what path you would take.

And that brings us to Egypt.

In some ways it’s an unfair comparison while both sides in Egypt don’t have a lot of love for the Jews and tend to believe some interesting conspiracy theories.

But unlike the Germans of the 30’s they managed to figure it out before their Army became involved in foreign adventures throughout the middle east and booted them out.

That’s where the problems begin.

If I was a Muslim Brotherhood member I would be protesting day and night, here we finally have power and a chance to advance our theology (and support from of all places the US administration Obama & Clinton) and the people kick us out.  They have been waiting decades for this chance, they aren’t going to give it up now.

More importantly think of all those who aren’t active but support them, is there any question they will back them up?  Under normal standards of fair play they would certainly be justified in any attempt to reverse this.

The problem is the description of those two paragraphs above would apply to the Nazi’s if my hypothetical 30’s revolution took place.  Islamists like the Muslim brotherhood are much more patient that the Fascists of Europe but the goals of domination and rule are the same.

Even worse than the Nazi’s this is backed up by actual religious fervor.

I don’t live in Egypt, is it fair for me to say to Egyptians who have forcibly wrested themselves free of the clutches of the Brotherhood and have paid a high price for it to play by Hoyle when they have skin in the game and I don’t?

More importantly do I have a better suggestion or solution?

Frankly I don’t.  But if you think you do I’d be delighted to hear it.

Update: It’s no coincidence that after getting rid of their own version of the Nazi’s at home they are talking about taking care of the Nazi’s on their border:

After crushing the Muslim Brotherhood at home, Egypt’s military rulers plan to undermine the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which runs the neighboring Gaza Strip, senior Egyptian security officials told Reuters on Tuesday.

The aim, which the officials say could take years to pull off, includes working with Hamas’s political rivals Fatah and supporting popular anti-Hamas activities in Gaza, four security and diplomatic officials said.

There is nothing like escaping the rule of radical islamists to make a country not like them anymore

Update 2: Just a remember Egypt controlled Gaza from 1946 till Israel took it from them in 1967 and before that it was ruled by England

Update 3: Although results haven’t been announced officially the Washington Post reports that the results are lopsided:

But state news media reported Thursday that 98 percent of voters in 25 of Egypt’s 27 provinces cast “yes” ballots in the referendum, which was billed as a mandate for the interim government that replaced ousted Islamist president Mohamed Morsi’s administration.

Anytime you see such a result your corruption antenna should go up, however there is one logical explanation that might mitigate it as per the BBC:

The referendum is being seen as a vote on the legitimacy of his removal and of the army, which removed him.

It was boycotted by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist movement Mr Morsi comes from and which wants to see him returned to office.

If your main opposition boycotts an election a one sided result is likely and the unofficial result also don’t include “North Sinai where support for Hamas & the MB would be expected to be strong.

I’ll wait until the official numbers are out before I decide if the fix is in or if this is Lincoln in the south circa 1860 but some suspicion is certainly in order.


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Olimometer 2.52

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