The suddenly not quotable Cardinal Kasper UPDATE Denials & Coincidences UPDATE: Game set match Pentin

Yesterday the darling of progressive catholic Cardinal Kasper of Germany had some ahem interesting things to say about his brother Cardinals in africa.

In a stunning new interview, German Cardinal Walter Kasper has said that African Catholics “should not tell us too much what we have to do” and admitted that they are not being listened to at the Vatican’s current synod as it takes up matters including homosexuality, divorce, remarriage, and family life.

Elizabeth Scalia is horrified:

The African and Asian churches are going to provide the bulk of new missionaries who will be needed to evangelize the “jungle of modern Western culture”, which has scant acquaintance with Christ Jesus. Their churches are growing; their priests are excited; why does their thinking not matter?

Moreover — and perhaps this is most important — dismissing and denigrating the African bishops, and the others, could seriously impact their effectiveness as missionaries to the West. “They needn’t be listened to, except in Africa…” I really don’t think Jesus would agree.

And how awful for one bishop to imply, as Kasper does, here, that it’s okay for the African bishops to be listened to in Africa…but not here, in Europe!

This makes as much sense as the Houston Astros giving the Kansas City Royals advice on how to handle St. Louis or San Francisco in this year’s world series

Father Z reminds us of history:

Kasper’s view reminds me of when Augustine tried to convince Donatists that the Church wasn’t just in Africa. The Donatists thought they were the only Church and anyone in contact with Catholic bishops was tainted.

I respond that the Catholic Church in Africa is older than the Church in Germany. Not only that, the Church doesn’t subsist only along the Rhine.

The only things missing from what Kasper said here are the words “tribal” and “primitive”.

Rod Dreher is blunt: “Chicken Dinner Kasper

Wait, since when are African and Asian Catholics second-class citizens in their own Church? The arrogance of the Western liberal Kasper is unspeakable — and of a piece with the same attitudes liberals in the Episcopal Church and the Church of England have taken towards the Global South. USA Today points out that numerically speaking, Catholics in Africa are poised to overtake Catholics in Europe within a decade. The Catholic faith — Christianity in general — is utterly moribund in Europe. The churches are nearly empty. Not so in Africa. In Cardinal Kasper’s own country, only 13 percent of Catholics show up for mass on Sunday (Pew says that number is lower). What kind of special arrogance does it take to say that the Africans and the Asians do not deserve to be listened to because their views do not accord with what liberal Europeans who speak for a dwindling number of Catholics believe? Truth is not decided by numbers, surely, but Kasper represents a church that is dying not from martyrdom, but from boredom. He ought to be a lot more humble.

Remember the controversy at the 1998 Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion, in which angry liberals were said to have complained that the African Anglicans’ loyalty to the conservative line on homosexuality was “bought by chicken dinners”? Well, how do you say “bought by chicken dinners” in German?

It looks familiar to Damian Thompson

Now he sounds like an Anglican – and not just because he thinks aloud on matters of the utmost sensitivity. One of the insoluble problems of that Anglican Communion, in which I try not to take pleasure, is that the liberals who patronisingly celebrate the ‘richness’ and ‘deep wisdom’ of African and Asian societies can’t come to terms with their anti-gay attitudes. Older liberals, especially, have to be careful not to slip back into the mindset of their youth, when Africans were by definition unenlightened. And Cardinal Kasper (b. 1933) does not ‘do’ carefulness.

And Deacon Greg channels Calvin Coolidge

Am I the only one who thinks it might be a good idea for Cardial Kasper to take a vow of silence for a few weeks?

I disagree, I’m delighted that Cardinal Kasper said this openly, that as Elizabeth has said “the mask has dropped”.

twitter right now the German pralate words are drawing a loud response:

That’s a bazinga.

That one too

We’ll come back to the “German” argument later on in this piece

@ProfJCharmley Pope Francis started #Synod with asking to listen humbly to each other. Good advice to ‘important’ cardinals #Kasper #Africa

— maria (@marrisch) October 15, 2014

Maria’s remarks are likely the kindest but there are plenty of remarks like this:


This next tweet really expressed my own thought:

There have been calls for an apology and defenses like this one titled:  No, Cardinal Kasper is not a racist, although I submit that if you have to say “Person X is not a racist” you’ve already lost the argument.

That would explain why the media’s favorite and most quotable Cardinal words are suddenly not getting a lot of  traction from the MSM that loves him.  It’s true that if these remarks had been made by Pope Benedict XVI every media outlet would be calling him a racist, every MSNBC host would be in an uproar, Jessie Jackson & Al Sharpton would be marching on the Vatican embassy and an apology if not a resignation would be demanded the media.

However being the favorite Churchman of progressives has privileges which is why at this moment no major media source is saying a word.

While his words have not moved the media I suspect they will have a profound effect on the Synod because of things like this:

I’ll wager Churchmen all over the world are getting e-mails like that and while the media will do their best to ignore it the Vatican and the Synod can’t. The sunlight this will shine on those who are more worried about pleasing this word than the next will make all the difference. My suggestion pray for all involved especially the church in Africa, because they will be carrying the ball for the rest of us. Closing thought, contrast Cardinal Kasper’s words on Africa with these from Cardinal Dolan from his site: Money quote:

“The bishops of Africa are prophetic in reminding us that the role of the Church is to transform the culture, not to be transformed by the culture.”

Bingo as Jesus said:

Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.   Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;Matt 10:34-37

Update this image says it all: africa1That’s after 15 hours.  And none of those 15 include any major newspaper or news source. I repeat, if Benedict XVI or Cardinal Burke had said something like about Black Bishops & Cardinals would there be any other story in the news?

Update:   Denials and coincidence

The article is in German, Here is the translation via the same author:

That leaves four possibilities:

1. The article is inaccurate the interview never took place Mr. Pentin is lying.

2. The interview took place but either it was in another language & was translated poorly or the interview wasn’t recorded and the recollections of Mr. Pentin & the Cardinal differ.

3. A conversation took place between the Cardinal & Mr. Pentin that the Cardinal didn’t consider an interview.

4. The article is accurate the interview did take place & Cardinal Kasper is lying.

I take it a rote that a Roman Catholic Cardinal isn’t going to lie in this way but Mr. Pentin seems to have a long history and an excellent reputation in journalism so I’m certainly not going to call him a liar either

zenit has pulled the piece (you can read a cached copy here) that could be because the article is wrong, in dispute or pressure was placed on either them or Mr. Pentin to remove it.

I don’t know which it is and at the moment neither does anyone else  I’ve sent the following questions to Zenit:

Did Zenit pull the interview and if so why?

Did Zenit determine the interview never took place

Did Zenit determine that the interview was obtained under false pretenses?

Was Zenit in any way pressured to remove the interview?

Did Zenit pressure Mr. Pentin in any way to remove the piece from their site.

Does Zenit intend to make a public statement concerning this situation?

I’ll let you know what they say

Meanwhile Elizabeth Scalia notes an amazing coincidence:

Meanwhile, John Thavis notes:

UPDATE: The Vatican announced today that the pope has named an African, Cardinal Wilfrid Napier, who had distanced himself from much of the midterm relatio, to the preparation commission of the final document. Also named was an Australian, Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne.

A result of the Pentin piece brouhaha? Coincidental timing of an announcement? I don’t know. I think whatever the case, it’s good news.

The Lord certainly works in mysterious ways.

Update 2: Pentin has the interview on tape and there were two witnesses. Game Set & Match.

With no offense to Mr. Pentin I’m very disappointed I don’t care if he’s a liberal he’s a Cardinal.


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