Woke up early and saw everyone fawning about the HBO party and Tom, “your un-American” Hanks. I’m almost getting diabetic listening to it.

6:34 a.m. Spike Lee has come on and once the founding fathers were mentioned Lee started attacking them. For those of you who voted for Barak Obama for the hope of absolution, forget it.

6:38 a.m. At least answering Lee has stopped the sugar. Scarborough makes a great point that kids going to school in say 1st grade will remember Obama as their first president and will not think anything of having a Black President. The importance of this can’t be overstated.

6:40 a.m. The pretense that Obama didn’t run as a black candidate is very funny. His only qualification was that he was a black candidate, but in fairness the media was the one who pushed the “history”.

6:42 a.m. The sight of Pat Buchanan and Spike Lee sitting three chairs from each other and discussing the founding of the county and MLK is something. The shot of it I think would make Charles Johnson’s head explode like Kryten over Ketchup on Lobster.

6:47 a.m. Now Lee is complaining about the lack of black coaches. He must have taken Frederick Douglas’ advice post emancipation, agitate agitate agitate.

Let it not be forgotten today that if it wasn’t for George W Bush and the security he brought to the country the public celebrations of yesterday and today might have been conducted in an atmosphere of fear and cowering rather than celebration. Those who are celebrating have forgotten it, I won’t.

7:02 a.m. Spike Lee says it had to be ordained by God. Apparently when republicans believe this we are fools, if democrats believe this it is celebrated.

7:05 a.m. Barnicle compares the last 8 years to domestic abuse. Oh c’mon!

7:07 a.m. Andrea Mitchell has replaced Pat. Should have mentioned it 4 min ago.

7:10 a.m. Spike Lee leaves saying he is glad to be an American. That’s a great close.

Update: fixed a sentence that had dropped its end.

They are talking about the president’s speech last night which I missed. Barnicle pointed out something. Quote might not be exact as I’m typing while getting ready:

“Obama is now saying how difficult it is going to be to close Gitmo, he is now seeing the same intelligence that President Bush has seen for the last 6 years.”

That is the big thing. In 3 days the president elect will own it all and he doesn’t want to be the guy who blows it.

Update: somehow dropped the “something” when saving post.

There were going over the interview with Dick Cheney a few minutes ago and berating him as one might expect with Joe Absent but Mika made the point that Joe would if here disagree and defend him and we should be careful, implying the other side isn’t being heard.

What other MSNBC show does this? These people have opinions and don’t hide them but are honest and have class.

Slept late today due to gamenight (Played the new version of Britannia game) from Fantasy Flight Games. Pretty solid game.) so I’ve come late to Morning Joe today.

I thought that Mikia’s, Pat & Tom’s Brokaw’s heads were going to blow up when Tom Freedman stated and Mike Barnicle agreed that its a war and the notion of proportionate response was nonsense. Mika then complained that so many more Palestinians have been killed than Israeli no difference given between civilian and military.

She quickly changed the subject to “torture”. I haven’t seen the article in question but the methods described don’t sound like torture to me.

On Morning Joe today they have been touching on the president’s press conference yesterday.

I watched it. It was a fine job of defending his record but on the WMD issue I really think he should remember Col’s Chu’s testimony before the house. He should have said disappointed at not finding large quantities of WMD rather than no WMD.

But the making fun of Joe the Plumber in Israel was distasteful. First of all it smacked of a caste system, how dare he go above his place? Second of all if the world press actually did their job concerning reporting then we wouldn’t need someone to tell us what is actually in front of our faces.

UPDATE if you came here from the Dissenting Justice link it was wrong. The actual post you want is here but this post does have some background on the subject.

I’ll have to find the podcast but it looks like this was something heated and full of passion. I saw only the tail end and it was something.

Here is my personal take, there are two sides to this a legal and a moral one: Continue reading “I missed the great Morning Joe “Torture” debate”

Did I just hear Pat Buchanan say on Morning Joe that the reason there is no peace is that there is not a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital?

Yup land for Peace has worked REALLY well hasn’t it?

6:41 a.m. Joe asked Pat why the international community never reacts before Israel has to strike? Pat is ducking dodging and weaving.

6:42 a.m. “Would prime minister Buchanan go after Hamas?” I would go in but chase like Pancho Villa. Accuses Israel of operating a penal camp.

6:45 a.m. How does Israel get the UN to intervene before they have to go in? Nobody wants to answer, because it is impossible.

It looks like a few days after the blogisphere. Morning Joe has discovered Sarah Palin’s Interview available all over the conservative net:

It looks very much like it will not be a friendly reaction, but once they finally finish with college football we will see.

6:10 a.m. They seem to be making some grudging agreement to start.

6:14 a.m. They play the quote concerning Caroline Kennedy. They comment correctly that she is getting some critical coverage.

7:15 a.m. So much for the grudging agreement now she is a whiner.

7:20 a.m. Norah O’Donnell gives a “yes but” over the “going after the family” business. Suggests she asked for it. Would love to see what the Reclusive Leftist would say to that kind of sentiment.

8:15 a.m. You just knew that if Palin was going to be attacked that Peggy Noonan was going to be on the show today. Its a wonder that Kathleen Parker was invited as well.

8:41 a.m. Apparently according to Susie Orman Gov Palin is not “mature enough” to not fight back. Watch for the UN to try to impose her as the new PM of Israel ASAP

8:55 a.m. Orman manages one last dig in what we learned today. I feel much better about missing her own show on a regular basis.

With a job interview out of town later today and a car that will need serious deicing I won’t have much blogging time later so here are my quick Morning Joe thoughts today.

Morning Joe thinks as highly of Harry Reid’s staying power as Jane Hamsher does.

During the conversations concerning the war in Gaza and the rockets from Lebanon the word was always Iran this and Iran that, not Lebanon this, not Gaza this, not Hamas this, not Hizbullah, but Iran. It is a given that this is totally an Iranian play.

The cover of Time Magazine saying Israel can’t win is very funny. They didn’t call Time on it at all, but Israel in in a bad spot.

The consensus is that the Bush / Obama transition is a class act. Other than Mika Brzezinski the club seems to think that none of the ex presidents want to stand next to Jimmy Carter.

They will have to have a daily segment called “What must Martha Stewart think?” since they bring that up every time someone who deserves jail more than she did comes up.

Morning Joe has reported as breaking news an agreement in principle to a cease fire that stops rockets and prevents smuggled weapons.

I’m not seeing it anywhere else yet.

People not getting killed is always a big plus, but if true I can’t see how it will work. The international force in Lebanon is a farce. Any such force that is in Gaza that did not enforce bans on arms smuggling or stop rocket launches would just become human shields. Any such force that was willing to actively stop either would be a target for Hamas and their Iranian allies. They would have to go in ready to fight.

Anyways we will see.